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Tom English: Silence of UEFA lambs is deafening



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Published Date: 18 May 2008
Football's governing bodies have questions to answer and obvious action to take, but they're opting out, again
SO FAR, everyone and everything has come under the microscope. The vermin rump of the Rangers support, the police, the Rock Steady security personnel, the Manchester City Council, Tesco, the heat, the Mancunian element, the travelling Northern Irish. We've heard it all from every conceivable side but the people we've heard precious little from are the men from UEFA. This was their party after all. Their show.

Where have they been the past few days? Michel Platini? David Taylor?

William Gaillard? Have you nothing to say beyond the blindingly obvious? It was a disgrace? You don't say. Your thoughts are with the Russian fan who got stabbed? How reassuring. You will launch an inquiry? I see.

UEFA's inquiry, as they've already made clear, will begin and end at the City of Manchester Stadium. It will involve the stabbing of the fan and the pitch invasion of the Zenit St Petersburg supporters and nothing else. That is the top and bottom of UEFA's responsibility as they see it. That's what's written in their constitution. Anything that happened away from the ground and it's ostrich time.

Mayhem on the streets after their event. Police assaulted after their event. Cars ransacked after their event. Innocent people scared half to death after their event. Tens of thousands of pounds worth of damage after their event. FTP, UVF, Fenian blood before and after their event.

Nothing to do with them, though. Away from the stadium, see. How can UEFA absolve themselves of responsibility in this way? Are they a governing body or not?

By rights, UEFA should be getting ready to suspend Rangers from European competition for a year. They should look at a video presentation, beginning with the incidents involving PC Mick Regan and the second involving another constable whose own pitiful plight was revealed on BBC Scotland on Friday and decide that they have no other option. Two officers down and two officers extremely lucky to be up and about today. They could have been maimed or killed. That's your starting point, UEFA. Do you condone the brutal assault of these policemen? If not, what are you prepared to do about it? UEFA will not ban Rangers because a precedent of outrageous leniency has already been set. They favour fines but most of all they opt out.

In Italy, nobody gets banned despite violence and murder at their football. Outside the stadium again, though. They can't go and ban Rangers now after turning a blind eye to Italian clubs whose hooligans cause death and destruction seemingly every season.

The fighting in Manchester was by far the most disturbing thing but the blight of sectarianism was there in force, too. As a club Rangers have already had their warnings about bigoted chanting and, to the undoubted mortification of Sir David Murray who has done all he can in this regard, these warnings were ignored by factions in the support last week. Sectarian songs could be heard all over Manchester on Wednesday afternoon.

They could be heard in a service station on the road down there on Wednesday morning. At 8.45am I heard them myself. A group of about 20 started up and only stopped when an elderly fan shouted: "Now, now boys, no sectarianism today."

"Football owes itself to be an example in our societies," said Platini last August. "Football must teach values to Europe – honesty, courage, fraternity, tolerance and peace. Football includes, integrates, and welcomes. It excludes no one, it discriminates against no one, it persecutes no one. The battle that we have undertaken against racism and discrimination is a combat which will only stop when these phenomena have disappeared from our stadiums."

Football persecutes no one. Gosh. Wouldn't it be wonderful to live in the fantasy world of Michel?

Again, note the words 'disappeared from our stadiums'. Do what you like outside is the message. Riot on somebody else's doorstep. Just don't do it in our backyard.

Taylor has come out with similar waffle since being appointed general secretary. "I don't know who they (the bigots and racists) are," he said. "I don't know what interest they have in football. They are not welcome in football or anywhere near it. UEFA has its approach to these problems. We will kick clubs out of European competitions, even national teams if players or supporters act in a racist way. These sorts of sanctions are there and UEFA will not be afraid to use them if the circumstances are serious enough. So we have no tolerance for racist behaviour."

What utter bunk. What unadulterated garbage. UEFA will act if the "circumstances are serious enough," says Taylor.

Since making that statement last year players have been racially abused all over Europe and Taylor hasn't said a word. In November, Zola Matumona quit FC Brussels after being singled out by the Belgian club's president who told Matumona to think about other things than "trees and bananas".

In France, in September and February, fans at Bastia and Metz and Grenoble were involved in racist incidents. One black player gestured to the people who were abusing him and got sent off.

In Montenegro, DaMarcus Beasley and Jean-Claude Darcheville were abused. In Russia, Zenit fans are serial offenders. Dick Advocaat says he cannot sign black players, that the club supporters wouldn't have it. In Germany, Cottbus continue to get away with horrendous chanting.

Closer to home, Russell Latapy was targeted by Hibs fans last September.

None of these were serious enough for the fearless Taylor and the organisation that is "not afraid" to use heavy sanctions. FK Zeta got a ?9,000 fine for their hateful treatment of Beasley and Darcheville. And UEFA have the brass neck to talk about football's courage, honesty and fraternity. Platini and his cohorts speak no more sense than the violent wasters who wrecked Manchester on a breakfast of Buckfast, a lunch of lager and a dinner of a combination of the two. No wonder Platini rose to high office. His Gallic shrug would have deeply impressed the delegates. "What can we do, my friends? We are powerless to act. It says it here in our rules."

UEFA don't do unpleasantness if they can help it. Platini is a great man for presenting medals. If there's a function to speak at, he's your guy. If there's an anti-racism drive to champion he'll happily pose beside little children of all nationalities and vow to stamp out this terrible cancer in the beautiful game.

Then, five minutes later, some unreconstructed Serbians will hound a visiting black player with monkey chants and bananas and Michel will weigh in with his "zero tolerance" mantra, the upshot of which will be a nine thousand euro fine and a UEFA request that they cut out that sort of thing in the future.

Like their big brother FIFA, they are here only for the finer things in life, so expecting them to do or say anything of use in the wake of the Manchester riot is a forlorn hope. Given that so many of them flew through the air the other night you might hesitate to bring bottle into this, but this is a question of nerve and UEFA don't appear to have any. Look at the tapes of the trouble, Michel. Your final. Your night.

But not your job to interfere? How's that then?


The full article contains 1251 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Wee Pal Joe,

18/05/2008 00:27:15
There certainly should be stronger punishment for racist behaviour.

As for trouble away from stadiums that's a difficult one. For example, two Leeds fans were stabbed to death in Istanbul a few years ago. Does UEFA get involved? What would be an appropriate punishment? How about the various fans who have been stabbed on visits to Italy?

The nearness of Wednesday's game let vast numbers of people who do not usually (maybe never in some cases) attend Rangers matches to swarm into Manchester including, I'm sure, an element for whom drunken hooliganism is a pretty regular occurrence. As many of them as possible should be identified and convicted. They should then be banned not only from Ibrox (as they will be) but from all football. But it's a huge can of worms if UEFA choose in the future to "police" cities - or roads, airliners, trains....
2

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 18/05/2008 01:00:43
At last a Scottish newspaper tells it like it was and No Murray spin
3

paulmac,

surrey 18/05/2008 01:11:40
It's not a can of worms Joe....it's a matter of strength of character....and UEFA have shown they don't have it.

4

Cincinnatus,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 01:17:20
Hey Tom,

Excellent article, what's the Hibs and Latapy comment about. I find it hard to believe an ex Hibs favourite getting abused becuase of his colour?
5

hibbie,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 02:01:30
Latapy was applauded on and off the field I was there and never heard any abuse, he is held in high regard by Hibs fans.
6

Alexei Verdy,

Yorkshire 18/05/2008 02:10:02
Everyone knows there is a sizeable bad element amongst the Rangers' support but until people like Bain admit to it and stop repeating "they were not Rangers supporters" line, it will continue. The club needs to face its shame. Until it does, it leads by bad example.
7

,

18/05/2008 03:01:56
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8

Forward not Back,

18/05/2008 03:34:45
Never mind UEFA, rent a quote Gordon Smith has been even more conspicious by his absence since Wednesday. Wonder why?
9

clach,

Far Outer Hebrides 18/05/2008 03:46:11
Disclaimer: I'm a fan of the national team and a frustratingly poor provincial club.

Rangers FC is an organization so rotten to the core that the behaviour of their fans (and players back in Watty's first reign) is tolerated, if not actively encouraged. It's a beastly club which stokes this sectarian nonsense and the "no one likes us" mentality as a matter of fact.

The behaviour of Rangers fans was so predictable at the UEFA Cup final. When fans of the national team, or any other Scottish club go abroad, there isn't this trouble, but it's omnipresent with the Gers.

How many Saltires versus Union Jacks on Wednesday? 1 for every 100 I'd say. Why, because the colours match the team's strips (when was the red introduced by the way? Not until at least the latter half of the eighties, as far as I can remember)? No, just so they can "get it right up" the other half of Glesga. Admittedly, there's a disgraceful amount of tricolors amongst Sellick's fans too.

I guess the bottom line is this: the rest of Scotland should either hope (i) the InFirm move to Engerland as they always threaten to, or (ii) the City of Glesga itself drifts down the Firth of Clyde and is scuttled at sea, for the benefit of mankind.
10

,

18/05/2008 04:14:44
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11

,

18/05/2008 04:30:01
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12

,

18/05/2008 04:41:15
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13

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 18/05/2008 04:53:48
107 in a row, you're kidding no-one.

How dare you try and defend this repulsive institution. No-one denies that celtic, hearts and others have an element amongst their support that let their clubs down, but for institutionalised bigotry and arrogance, rangers stand alone.

This club has been a blight on decency and sportmanship for generations and morons like you keep playing the "celtic are just as bad" nonsense so often that you probably believe it.

Rangers have no comparison when it comes to violent, repulsive and bigoted fans and until their directors start telling the truth, accept responsibility for the disgusting in-breds that finance theiir club and root them out, then rangers will continue to be the shame of scotland.

I live in Australia but was in Honk Kong last week and these images were broadcast everywhere "Glasgow rangers fans on the rampage". God help the decent people of Glasgow.
14

,

18/05/2008 05:02:35
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15

,

18/05/2008 05:16:14
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16

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 18/05/2008 05:26:11
You are wrong and no amount of repeating your lies will make you right.

As I have said, Celtic, Heart and lots of ther clubs have a bad element but nothing, nothing, nothing comes close to the repulsive, bigoted, medieval nonsense than eminates from rangers fans.

Rangers as an institution is rotten at its core and its directors are liars, hypocrits and aplogists for this cretinous behaviour.

People like you, with your own agenda are too bitter to think for yourseves you you just go with the flow and blame the "old firm", lazily suggesting that celtic fans are the same as rangers fans. UTTER NONSENSE!

There is no old firm. There is Celtic, whose fans can go anyhere and make scotland proud and then there is rangers, a blight on decency, an outdated and bigoted company who remains scotlands shame.
17

Lone Star Don,

Texas 18/05/2008 05:35:16
Why would UEFA get involved if the SFA has done, ahem, Sweet FA about it? The SFA has tolerated the bigotry from the Glasgow clubs for years. Talk about Ostriches.
18

,

18/05/2008 05:59:46
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19

Mrs Miggins,

ENOUGH!!! 18/05/2008 07:22:46
The Scottish press seems finally to be stirring. Every grey cloud has a silver etcetera.

Yes, UEFA should act, but if they don't, then by the same token, David Murray should. Whether he likes it or not, he is indirectly responsible for the shame of last Wednesday. If he has any sense of responsibility and self respect he should withdraw Rangers from European football until he and his board can sort this mess out, whatever it takes. Fill Ibrox with plain clothes security men and detain and ban twenty violent bigots a week.

By 2020 they might start having a respectable support.

Murray has to act. At the moment, NOTHING HAS CHANGED since Wednesday, neither Rangers nor any of their fans (as far as I know) are in line for any kind of punishment. This is simply intolerable and sends out completely the wrong message. It is more embarrassment and shame heaped on embarrassment and shame. Murray has to put law and order, respect and decency before Rangers, at whatever the cost to the club.

Not that he will. And if Murray won't act, then the SFA should. Rangers have been bringing Scottish football into disrepute for decades now. Why should the rest of suffer for a bunch of bams in union jacks? Enough!
20

Thomas J,

Dunfermline 18/05/2008 07:34:49
Refreshingly honest article by Tom English but I suspect that for you Tommy "the red wine is finsished".

Mr Murray does not like journalists who speak the truth and he has more power in Scotland than the First Minister......or at least it seems that way.

21

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:08:10
As I understand, Uefa's position is that they will only take action if the trouble is inside the ground.
That therefore means it is the authorities who are obliged to act because someone has to take responsibility for these things happening!
22

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:10:06
'Such as if he was getting such a bashing as he claimed how come there wasn't a single mark on him?'

Obviously you didn't see the large bandage on his left arm.
23

big bucks,

kathmandu 18/05/2008 08:20:19
even in this part of the world they saw scotlands shame.Those that have televion that is.
It looks like the gers are having a quadruple bypass.Maybe it was to soon to give wattie the manager of the year,when you consider wee gordon got to the last sixteen of the champions league and maybe one game away from three in arow.
24

jocks by the river,

London 18/05/2008 08:24:14
Once again a thread full of comments of vested interest and bias. Having spent the entire day and night in the city and having attended the game it is fair to say I didn't experience a single incident of violence. The trouble was confined to a tiny minority of fans who I am sure probably do claim to support the club but do nothing but harm (these fans exist in all major clubs which I have seen at first hand across Europe in many games not involving Rangers).

It really is a pity they seem to have driven the disproportionate coverage above although it is restricted to Scotland and not as suggested given any prominence at all in the English press. Tom English is not being free of "Murray bias", he is simply overexploiting the news from the tiny minority to make his point.

Real shame there was no comment of the excellent behaviour of the 35,000 fans that managed to get into the ground and who to a man appluaded Zenit as thet received the cup - no doublt the better team won and there was wide recognition of that.
25

big big fun,

18/05/2008 08:27:47
why has the scotsman stopped anyone from commenting on the rangers sports section ?
26

Alberto.,

18/05/2008 08:50:25
After this fiasco it must surely be way past time for some 'banning' - very serious banning to be applied - by someone beyond ‘the alleged ‘beautiful game’ - still a rare, if not almost extinct creature!

If 'Conkers - Marbles - apple scrumping etc etc.' is considered dangerous by those 'experts' at the 'Elf and Safety' - where do they stand on this Professional football lark - eh? Why their thunderous ‘silence’ on the matter - surely not the financial side of the argument being considered above their ‘piece de resistance’ the actual ‘Elf and Safety’ they are usually very concerned about -above all else, many time to the point of appearing ridiculous!!

Presumably they take the easy way out - by not interfering in organisations that can afford to say 'Get Lost!' - as it seems 'money may be at the root of the trouble' in many ways!

The current money making organisation - the so called 'Professional Football Association', needs to stand well back and look at itself and do something serious about 'this' problem - or hopefully, some outside 'officialdom' does (what an eye-opener that would be - if it came about) - and spoils their cake!!

More and more matches behind much closed doors might help to bring things to a more sensible position - all round!!

There is too much 'bad feeling and deliberate dirty play on the field' to encourage many supporters to reach and express theirs, and as we see with some, their attitude, usually fired up with alcohol and the great opportunity of easily reaching their boiling point (I feel sure they are not their for the football!) and creating their own style of mayhem - 'it don't take much to stir them!' and probably ‘mayhem’ being their target for the day - ‘a bloody marvelous day out for them and their mentality!’ Soon, no doubt, to be repeated - without any worthwhile penalties!!

From what I see, admitted only on TV - I wouldn't risk ‘my life’ attending an actual 'alleged' professional football match - anywhere, seem
27

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 08:52:16
A good article but the fact of the matter is this;

Rangers cannot be responsible for what drunks do outside the vincity of the football stadia.

Uefa cannot be responsible for what drunks do outside the vincity of football stadia.

The police can do something about it. And all Uefa and Rangers can do is alert the police if they think there will be trouble.

In the bigger picture, Rangers could stop playing the "britishness" card as this is definitely attracting the BNP element.

Staying on the big picture, Rangers could come down hard on the orange songs that only fule the fires of hatred.

Until Rangers stop encouraging the scvm element to support them - they will always have this problem.

DEAL WITH IT RANGERS.
28

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:53:23
They seem more concerned with pretending that it never happened.
29

Alberto.,

18/05/2008 08:54:08
#26 Cont'd....

From what I see, admitted only on TV - I wouldn't risk ‘my life’ attending an actual 'alleged' professional football match - anywhere, seemingly played by, as so many managers seem to express 'They are Professionals!!' - No matter their behaviour!

It also seems that far too many Fans / Supporters / Spectators / Participants in waiting - call them what you will, many seem to attend because of the opportunity for a good lark, with a 'punch up' and, seemingly, best of all 'a right good P**s Up! - and now I hear, sometimes even at amateur games this attitude is appearing more and more!

The time for action - no matter the cost, is NOW!

30

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:01:04
28

Hi Richardinho,

Not just pretending it never happened but they seem to be more focused on dragging Celtic into it.

This is a RANGERS PROBLEM!

MURRAY DEAL WITH IT!
31

beeree,

local 18/05/2008 09:01:31
I must laugh. 100, 150, 200 thousand people descend on a city and there is an expectation that the low-life will not take advantage by attending, thieving, by fighting, by assaulting innocents. How innocent you are.

Try attending horse-race meetings like Chester, earlier this month, or the Derby or Royal Ascot next month; you will find the same people, or their cousins, in attendance.

Get off your high horses that's life.

I notice that no one has commented that Manchester Police seem to give their colleagues the same support in a tight corner as they do the general public. If the you-tubes are indicative of the police tactics then no wonder they were taken advantage of.
32

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:06:06
31

Hi Beeree

Do you think Rangers more than any other club in Scotland, attract a large volume of scvm supporters?
33

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:09:12
24

So I guess you never saw the Rangers fan in an orange jersey and Rangers baseball cap and scarf behind Michel Platini and the presentation area?????

Have a wee look again at the video and tell me if you think he was applauding or abusing Zenit?
34

Scota Nostra,

Manchester 18/05/2008 09:13:39
If UEFA continue to ignore the trouble caused by football fans, such as was shown on Wednesday, then I can see the day when police will refuse to cover football.A ban on Rangers competing in Europe will force the management at Ibrox to stop the music played before matches which seems to encourage sectarian songs and chants.I hope it is a very long time before Rangers again visit Manchester.
35

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:20:23
#25 I would think the answer is obvious, its to stop the holier than thou attitude and bile from the celtic fans who want to do nothing but gloat at the situation. celtics fans are not remotely interested in the good name of Scotland or anything else just as long as Rangers get shown in a bad light, end of story. So please stop moralising, the hypocrisy is sickening.
Have a nice day.....
36

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:21:50
34

Spot on mate.

Just imagine this.

Manchester has just experienced one match involving Rangers. Imagine what it's like in Glasgow.

After many Rangers big games (especially Celtic) there is widespread violence and hatred.

Plus once a year the Orange lodge (aka Rangers extreme supporters club) march in their thousands through Glasgow and behind them is a drunken rabble of hundreds if not thousands of hatemongers causing trouble (the rabble behind this march of hate are the ones often incapable or non-acceptable for the Orange order). Imagine being so low in society that an extremist group with decreasing numbers is refusing you entry! Yes that's the scvm we've had to put up with for years, decades!

It has to stop.

MURRAY DEAL WITH IT!

37

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:24:05
#33 Again you take isolated incidents and attach it to the majority. By your logic the celtic fan who assaulted Dida means all celtic fans are criminals?.
The celtic fan who made airplane gestures at Claudio Renya means all celtic fans are racist?
Yes/No?
38

eric,

lothian 18/05/2008 09:24:17
Manchester city centre is tiny and not suitable for big events like this,the violence was awful and shouldnt be too hard finding culprits,well done to the majority of the 200 thousand rangers fans .
39

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:26:10
35

Gerry, the truth often hurts mate. I find it strange that you are sickened by Celtic fans attitude yet seemingly not sickened by the sight of hundreds of thugs attacking policemen and terrorising hundreds of thousands of Mancunians.

Gerry STOP focusing on Celtic.

Gerry FOCUS on the giant boil on the back of humpbacked Rangers. It's RANGERS problem - if you are a fan of any kind then DEAL WITH IT! If you don't then accept everything that's coming to you!
40

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:26:58
#36 I guess you have never seen the upstanding citizens who attend and follow pro republican marches then?
41

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:28:31
40

Gerry, STOP focusing on Celtic.

Deflection will not work.

Help solved Rangers problem if you care about Rangers.

It's RANGERS PROBLEM! DEAL WITH IT!

42

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:33:06
#39 If you had read my articles on friday/saturday you would have seen clearly that my critisism of the loutish element was very clear.
I more than anyone wants this element out of football as they are a disgrace to my club.
I think it should be recognised that the vast majority, of whom I was one, were good ambasadors for the club and country, unfortunately let down by a few.
43

sambenito,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 09:36:37
All the evidence UEFA needed was right in front of them on Wednesday, IN THE STADIUM.

"The famine is over, why don't you go home?"

Loud and clear and certainly not restricted to a minority.
44

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:40:30
42

So what did you do then on wednesday to stop the riots?

And what have you done since the riots?

Or to put it bluntly, just what are YOU doing Fan of Gerry to get rid of this scvm element?

45

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 09:49:31
"Never mind UEFA, rent a quote Gordon Smith has been even more conspicious by his absence since Wednesday. Wonder why?" (#8)

Gordon Smith has in fact spoken on the matter.

Some folk are trying to use this trouble to attack their favourite targets, usually in an ill-informed way as above.
46

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:49:49
#44 You have proved by your last comments to be not only a fool but someone who has lost touch with reality. What the bloody hell would you have wanted me to do to stop the riot on wednesday. Say "come on now chaps please behave" what an idiot.
As for what have I done since, well very little actually as I await to see what the outcome of the various investigations taking place.
As I have said previously I attend Ibrox for every home game and there is no trouble, no sectarian singing - please remeber what is considered sectarian before jumping in with a reply - and certainly no racist chanting. So what would you have the club do?
47

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 09:52:04
"The behaviour of Rangers fans was so predictable at the UEFA Cup final" (#9)

Rangers fans had previously been on nine European away trips this season without a single arrest. A European final in our backyard was an exceptional situation.
48

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:53:32
#47 I know it hurts but its no excuse. This very vocal and violent minority let the club down.
49

sambenito,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 09:54:14
#46

No racist chanting at Ibrox? Don't make me laugh. Noel Hunt was singled out last weekend. "The famine is over, why don't you go home?", rang outpractically every time he had possession.
50

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 09:54:27
#27,

Some of your comments are sensible but there is nothing wrong with Britishness, any more than there is anything wrong with Irishness.
51

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:58:53
#49 Yes you are correct in that but again this is very rare and it was not the majority and please dont tell me similar things dont go on at parkhead. What I am saying is that in the big picture things at Ibrox are generally very good.
52

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 10:00:33
"Manchester has just experienced one match involving Rangers. Imagine what it's like in Glasgow.

After many Rangers big games (especially Celtic) there is widespread violence and hatred." (#36)

Hysterical, one-eyed nonsense. Do you really expect folk to believe there are scenes like Manchester on a regular basis (as distinct from the usual trouble you see in cities on a weekend), all perpetrated by those nasty Rangers fans and none by the angelic Celtic support?
53

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:02:20
50

I have never said there was anything wrong with britishness. But britishness is not exclusive to Rangers. There are 92 British clubs.

Rangers claiming to be the "british" club attract the nationalist element - ie the BNP. In the BNP there is a violent undercurrent.

All I am saying is why don't Rangers drop all the Britishness stuff and just focus on Rangers the football club.

Celtic FC don't play the Irish national anthem or celebrate Irish wars with blaring tunes over the tannoy.

If Rangers don't stop it - then accept that your club will attract a large volume of bigoted racist scumbag nutters.

DEAL WITH IT OR BE DRAGGED DOWN.
54

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 10:07:54
Ranger's book of excuses gets thicker by the day;

'The tv screen broke down'
'I was english fans'
'It was the councils fault'
'It was the police's fault'
'the video footage is selective'
'people criticising rangers are worse than the rioters!'

Take your medicine, and deal with it!
55

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 10:08:41
#53,

This talk of the BNP is just agenda-peddling and an attempt to demonise. There is no significant element of such people attached to the club.

And Celtic obviously play on their Irish identity - not that there's anything wrong with that imho. Should they stop because it might attract some violent Irish Republicans?
56

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 10:12:51
#55 I agree 100%
57

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:13:40
46

There are many things you can do FoG if you really want to. Here's a few suggestions as you obviously not the most imaginative soul are you?

1. Write to RFC/Murray and complain about the scvmbags who ruined your big day.

2. Write to RFC/Murray and complain about them playing the british card and accepting the orange songs.

3. Study footage or ask other supporters to identify who was responsible - the report them to the police.

4. Set up a fundraiser for all Rangers fans to chip in then Send a cheque to Manchester City Council to pay for the damage.

5. Send a card with apologies to Manchester City Coucil, the Manchester Police and the Manchester crew who were working on the big screen.

6. Send a letter of apology to Zenit for spoiling their big day - explaining why Rangers attract these scvmbag bigots.

7. Condemn all Rangers fans who sing any song that is anti, or is hate based.

8. Send a card/cheque to all the casualties including the Russian fan who was stabbed.

9. Contact Uefa/RFC/the Police and offer yourself as a witness to the violence if you saw it or encourage others to stand as witnesses if they saw - and finger the culprits.

There's NINE in a ROW Fan of Gerry.

There's a lot more you can do.

Rangers have a problem. A big problem. DEAL WITH IT!
58

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 10:14:15
Well gents I'm off now to enjoy the day.
Have a nice day.....
59

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:17:50
55/ 56

So who were the people?

Who were the people who attacked policemen?

Who were the people who ransacked Manchester - leaving it like a war zone?

Who were the people who were singing sectarioan racist songs?

You like to sing "we are the people" So just who are the people who carried out this disgrace?

Are you brave and honest enought to DEAL WITH THIS?
60

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:19:54
58

The going gets tough and wee FoG disappears (probably up his own backside)as he says in his big tough Govan accent "Have a nice day!"

RFC = Scotland and football's Shame!
61

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:30:52
From Newcastle in the 60's through Barcelona in the Seventies, Leeds in the 80's Bradford in the 90's and Manchester in the 2000's and many many more places and dates in those 40 years I have seen the violence, the sectarinism and the disgraceful attacks on innocent people by so-called follow-followers of Glasgow Rangers.

The same refrain follow-follows each incident, it wisnae us! it was the polis being heavy handed! the vast majority were peaceful. and so on and so on....

The 200 to 2,000 fans involved in the trouble at MC would still have been there if there was only 20,000 of a travelling support so do not take the percentage route here.

And the many many thousands 20-50-70,000 singing NO SURRENDER? Surrender or you will die DIE DIE? at a fete? a festival? a football match?

No pope in rome. Billy boys. 'Fenxan' blood all were heard on camera on wednesday. That was not a minority but a major minority of people which shows endemnic entrenched sectarianism within RFC follow-followers.

No wonder that Rangers will only be welcome in the Chelsea area of London and no other place in England (maybe Europe) for friendlies and the Police will try to ban their fans from attending European games in England in future.

Do not try to put Celtic's good conduct alongside Rangers history of violence and mayhem! Except as a comparison between good and not good.

There is no Old Firm!

AND on a last note!

WIN IT FOR TOMMY!
62

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 10:31:07
#59,

All kinds of folk streamed into Manchester who rarely if ever set foot in Ibrox (the sheer numbers tell you that). I have no doubt this included a significant element of "neds" and other undesirables, attracted by a giant street party so nearby.
63

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:31:37
TIM

Nothing wrong with Govan or a Govan accent I come from there!
64

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 18/05/2008 10:38:33
Deal with it Sir wantaway, you can't buy your way out of this one, even if your in-bred fan base keep trying to drag the good name of Celtic into things.

You rangers fans should be ashamed of yourselves with your "yous ur as bad as weee ur".

DEAL WITH YOUR PROBLEMS AND GIVE EVERYONE ELSE SOME PEACE
65

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:48:06
63

So do my family.

The remark was a play on the camp US comedy phrase "Have a nice day" Which Fan of Gerry always uses.

The dig is at FoG's adopting this US phraseology when he claims to be a born and bred Glasweigian.

It's not a dig at Govan or it's people. My bloodline goes back through the history of Govan - my great gandparents where married in St Anthony's in Govan 150 years ago and my Great Great Grandparents settled there when they left Ireland - when they arrived in Govan it was not part of Glasgow and was in fact just a village with thatched cottages on the riverside.

Changed days eh?

66

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:49:52
Just about One week ago the press were getting geared up for a post UEFA Cup final clamour for Sir Walter Smith - I have been told (not sure that this is reliably informed) that the urging for Sirship would have been done alongside calls for a Posthumus sir-ship for big jock!

So follow-followers of RFC not only did you cost Wattie his 'nightie' but you again have combined to affect the memory of Jock Stein.

Thanks a bunch!!
67

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:51:21
Paris

RFC fans are not welcome in Chelsea (my business is based there and the locals don't have anytime for RFC)

If they are welcome anywhere it is in Millwall and Leeds and places where the BNP are rife.

Despite the denials the Rangers attract the BNP element.
68

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:51:27
OK Tim.
69

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:57:53
68

On a final Govan note, my great grandfather and great uncles (some 5 of them) and my grandfather and grand uncles (some 7 of them) and my uncles (5 of them) all worked in the Govan Shipyards mainly as riveters on some of the world's biggest, best and most famous ships.





70

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 11:05:23
Tim/

Like a lot of ex-Govanites I have similar family history to yours.

Baile a' Ghobhainn is definitely changed now.
71

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 11:12:48
70

What's amazing about it, is that my forefathers must have watched Govan being built. My Grandfather (God rest him) could remember visiting Byres Rd as a boy and the road was full of byres - ie cow sheds. My great Grandfather was saved from the biggest disaster on the clyde when the ship the Daphne sunk on launch.
And just over 100 years ago travelling from Govan to the town was a marathon event of either walking along cobbled streets for miles or jumping on the back of a cart being pulled by a shetland.

It's hard to fathom the speed of change that happened in Govan/Partick over the last 150 years.

72

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 11:20:46
Lol TIM
Everything has changed in Govan but nothing at Ibrox!!!!!!
73

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 11:25:05
Tom English is either naive in the extreme or suffering an emotional hangover from his team being humiliated on and off the field this week.
UEFA have never taken action against clubs with prejudiced signing policies. Dick Advocaat took the job at Zenit with full knowledge that this would not be an issue. After all, he spent a number of years at a club with a century long anti-catholic sectarian employment policy (even the political powers within Scotland and Britain left that one alone).
As for David Murray doing everything possible to root out sectarianism - nonsense. Mr Murray had a knee jerk reaction to the possibility of the fans leading to euro sanctions. There was never any planned, long term moral stance approach to this. Think back to the orange strip, the tunes on the tannoy encouraging the add ons, the countless paramilitary banners (especially against Celtic), the billy boys, no pope of rome, we arra peoplle etc etc...
David Murray has reacted to being penalised by UEFA. Even now, with the Mrtin Bain pronouncement that the Manchester trouble had nothing to do with people associated with Rangers, there is a fundamental refusal or inability to face up to the facts. Until Rangers as an institution publicly acknowledges that there are real and serious ingrained difficulties through the whole club, there will be no real or lasting movement away from the difficulties that are a contituent part of who Rangers are after 100 years of blind eye neglect .
74

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 11:37:13
73

Murray can maybe do something in the long term by gradually cutting out this whole "britishness" thing - that is quite a stupid thing anyway as ALL Clubs in the UK are british anyway, but there is precious little he can do to stop ticketless thugs getting drunk hundreds of miles away and causing trouble!

He could introduce a policy that if you have fans with a recent violent or sectarian criminal record then that record bans them from getting a season ticket and he could stop playing all the songs and permitting banners that rally hatred.

Other than that and Murray and Rangers are powerless. This problem I believe will get worse before it gets better.
75

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 11:41:39
Just a thought.

Would Identity Cards help prevent mass rioting and hooliganism by Rangers fans?
76

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 11:47:26
74
I really believe that far from being powerless, it as a direct result of how rangers have positioned themselves as a club and an institution over many decades, that such people attach themselves to them.
You cannot be a club of intolerance and arrogance and not expect intolerant and arrogant people to align themselves to you.
Rangers must publicly denounce all that is poisonous within their midst and consistently do so. They need the stomach and single mindedness to put up with the flack they will receive because of this. That has been the problem in recent years. There are, I'm sure, many people at Rangers who want to move on and become a more positive and embracing club, but their is the fear of both the vitriolic and financial backlash this will provoke.
Must be done though.
77

,

18/05/2008 11:57:30
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78

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 12:02:32
77
You prove my points exactly (74, 76).

Rangers and their fans need to remove their heads from the sand and stand up as men and admit they have a serious problem.

Only then will the world begin to show respect and give you credence for taking the issues seriously.

Incidentally, Tom English is a Rangers fan, just as Graeme Spiers is. Just because you do not agree with someone, does not mean that they cannot possibly support the same team as you.
79

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 12:03:45
No. 71

Tim here is a little about the Daphne (you can get more at http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=3340)

On July 3rd 1883 the small steam coaster Daphne was launched from Alexander Stephen's Linthouse yard. Single screw, iron hulled, she was 177 ft long by 25.3 ft beam, giving a length to beam ratio of 7.0:1 Daphne had been orfered for the Glasgow, Dublin and Londonderry Steam Packet Co, which later was absorbed into Burns Laird, now part of P&O.

The specification had been drawn up by their Superintendent Marine Engineer who had been given strict instructions as to type of equipment used, overall dimensions, etc.

Not being a naval architect, all this was decided after studying the previous ships in the fleet, the builders being expected to perform the detailed design work and stability tests. Linthouse did not have a fiiting out berth, so the 2 cylinder compound diagonal engine was installed prior to the launch. The boilers were not installed at this point, but the fiddley deck was left off to allow the boilers to be fitted at the Broomielaw.

Fitting out was well advanced, but delivery was scheduled for early August, so nearly 200 men were on board so that they could keep on working while the ship was towed to Broomielaw. Just before noon the ship was launched, slipped quietly into the Clyde and came to rest due to the action of the drag chains.

Within a few seconds of coming to rest, the ship suddenly heeled to port, paused, recovered slightly, then heeled over again, this time not slowing or recovering. The ship rolled over completely, trapping most of the complement below decks. Despite the best efforts of rescuers only about 70 survivors were recovered, a total of 124 men and boys losing their lives. The speed of capsize was assisted by the men all sliding to port, 30 tons of loose gear on deck doing the same, and by water entering the ship through the boiler access hatch.

The ship was righted a few days later and
80

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 12:05:27
The ship was righted a few days later and taken to what became Govan No 1 drydock, then known as Salterscroft Graving Dock, where she was subjected to exhaustive stability tests. An enquiry was opened and much detailed evidence was collected.

Stephen's were commended for the assistance they gave the enquiry, no fault was found with the launch arrangements at Linthouse and the cause was reported to be little inital stability combined with excessive loose gear and personnel aboard.

One of the outcomes of the disaster was the limiting of personnel aboard to only those necessary for mooring the ship after the launch.
81

,

18/05/2008 12:08:27
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82

,

18/05/2008 12:11:51
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83

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 12:13:25
107

Didnt see any rioting in your post?
We self police that is the difference and its the older guys who have a duty to educate the younger guys in order to keep it that way.
Sectarianism and loutish behaviour is not tolerated by Celtic or the fans. Thats why your post is so meagre in gory details.


84

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 12:15:35
82 - gorgieboy

DEFLECTION, DEFLECTION, DEFLECTION!

Don't point fingers at other clubs that have nothing to do with RANGERS PROBLEM.

It's Rangers BIG BIG PROBLEM.

DEAL WITH IT!
85

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 12:17:43
80

Paris, thanks for that, really interesting. I think that disaster was the worst ever on the Clydeside.
86

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 12:24:35
107 in row

You really are hurting. Rangers riot in Manchester and it seems now to be the fault of Celtic fans disrupting a minute's silence for Queen mother. Pathetic. Look at yourself please. Facts would be helpful too. I was at the celtic home game on that day and there was no shouting during the silence. Some people demonstrated their democratic right not to stand up, but no embarrassing stuff at all.
87

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 12:26:25
At the last Celtic v Rangers match, the Celtic support at the Jock Stein stand unfurled a banner with the words "Scotland's Shame -> " , the arrow pointing at the Rangers fans.

It was studiously avoided by the entire Scottish media, who know perfectly well that it is amongst the Rangers support that the real thuggery of Scottish football is to be found. There is a hard core of Rangers fans who believe themselves to be above the law, above everything really that doesn't share their religion of hatred , violence and alcohol.

They are a danger to society and a cancerous lump on the Scottish landscape. They have been allowed to fester for decades, and it is only in the last few years that the body politic in Scotland has started to recognise the scale of the damage that the institution of RFC causes to society.

Rangers are a menace, an unholy priesthood of hatred and evil. They are unable to change, they refuse to change , they cling to their bitterness and carry it forward.
Perhaps the events in Manchester will give greater impetus to the politicians and law enforcement agencies to isolate them for everyone else , and recognise that they do represent a serious threat to good order in Scottish Society...this club serves as a focal point for all the very worst attitudes within Scottish society. Severe measures have to be taken to bring it to heel.

88

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 12:42:35
My attitude to Tom English has totally changed.

The way he wrote about that dodgy corner Celtic got at Motherwell , and the nauseating sycophancy with which he wrote about Walter Smith in the build up to the secon Celtic v Rangers game convinced me that the man was incapable of maintaining any sense of balance when writing about Celtic and Rangers.

Tom English is obviously a Rangers fan, but he hasn't missed and hit the wall about what happened in Manchester...none of the nauseating crap that we've heard pour from the mouth of Martin Bainochio ( remind me, what did he say about Cousin's release clause ?).

So, I didn't think Tom English had it in him to write critically about RFC...clearly, I was wrong in that assessment.

Reporting Scotland gets a big nothing out of ten for their news coverage broadcast about an hour before the kick off in Manchester. On two or three occassions, they showed us images of drunken Rangers yobs singing Hullo Hullo , we are the billy boys....but when it came to the 'we're up to our kness', there was a rather sudden 'director's cut', before moving swiftly to another group of drunken Rangers yobs.
89

,

18/05/2008 12:47:47
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